Forum Activity for @Ilana

Ilana
@Ilana
04/19/09 05:17:25
97 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I do not think that most chocolatiers ("re melters"??) just melt and re label their chocolates. I need not repeat what I have previously written. which is along the same line as what others have written on this thread. I also do not think that most of us lied. Some do happen to mention the chocolate they use, some do not, but not in order to trick their customers. Some use a few different kinds, some blend to get a certain profile, some don't.Just like a chef doesn't tell his customers that he raised certain cattle and bred them and fed them this and that. He buys his meats or products and then creates recipes.If it weren't for us bean to bar would not fair so well.I can certainly appreciate the amount of learning, effort and thought that went into your baby, and nobody should think otherwise. But, those chocolatiers that you bought chocolate from did not just melt and wrap their name aroundtheir goods and so trick you. Each field deserves its due.I think it is obvious that chocolatiers do more than just melt. I think most do not trick or lie.
updated by @Ilana: 09/11/15 08:52:06
Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
04/19/09 02:28:41
527 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi Everybody,Brad Churchill here from Choklat ( www.SoChoklat.com ).I've spent the last little while reading the various exchanges with regard to the topic of "re-melters", and would like to add my own 2 cents for what it's worth.4 years ago I began researching how to make my own chocolate, because as a consumer I learned that all of the chocolatiers I purchased from locally here in Calgary, bought bulk chocolate, melted it down, wrapped their name around it and called it "their chocolate". Personally, I felt lied to, and vowed never to purchase another chocolatier's confections again.At some point my recreation, transformed into business analysis, and in August of last year I opened "Choklat" - the first company in Western Canada that makes chocolate from bean to bar.Here in Calgary, the prolific chocolatier/measuring stick is Chocolaterie Bernard Callebaut - grandson of the founder of the Belgian Callebaut Chocolate factory. EVERY DAY for the first 6 months we were open I was asked what made our chocolate better than that which Bernard Callebaut makes. EVERY DAY for the first 6 months I had to explain that Chocolaterie Bernard Callebaut DOES NOT make chocolate. Some people were offended that I would speak such blasphemy about a local icon - at least until I produced the letter his lawyer sent us, threatening court action against me because I was "making him look bad." Yet, as a business person, I was simply differentiating my product from his, and telling the truth!I publicly stated that Mr. Callebaut bought his chocolate from one of the largest factories in the world. His lawyer wrote that he actually purchased his chocolate from THREE sources. It was all I needed!For over 20 years, he has led almost all Calgarians to believe he made the chocolate he used in his confections.I didn't back down. In fact after I sent him a PFO letter, I continued "educating" the public, and as a result have been receiving many accolades of my honesty and refreshing approach to the industry. People LIKE the truth, and the fact that I've had over 2.5 million hits to my website, and business is growing exponentially is testament to that statement.As far as I'm concerned, if you are a chocolatier and use someone else's couverture to make your product, that's fine. Be proud of it, and let people know you're proud to use a specific maker's chocolate.However, if you tell people you make chocolate, and there's no roasters, winnowers, or refiners which you have control over in your process, you better be prepared to be called a liar, and I'll be the first to stand up and point the finger.As a true "maker" and chocolatier, I can understand another maker's frustration in trying to differentiate their product from the rest of the marketplace. It's tough. Public perception has been skewed for many years.In the end though, what really matters is how the product tastes to your customer. If they like it better than the next chocolatier's they'll buy it regardless of whether or not you make it from the bean. By controlling 100% of the process, the maker has an edge in being able to make a better quality chocolate than that which every other chocolatier is only able to purchase.That's my two bits for what it's worth.
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
04/16/09 10:29:08
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I get your point, and with regards to your production - if Tcho was going to use that model permanently, then I would say that it would be stretching it to use "bean to bar" as a marketing tool. However, since it is only a stop gap measure, then it makes sense. In any case I wish you guys only the best.Your post does, however, bring up another issue that begs definition. You call Tcho a small young company. Young certainly, but any of us who have had to bootstrap our chocolate business would probably take exception to selling yourself as small. How many of the chocolatemakers here could afford to have a "pier full mammoth machinery" or that great San Francisco location? The photos on your site of all the people brainstorming your products... Those are luxuries that most of us cant afford. You guys are well funded and will be able to buy into a market that the rest of us struggle to get into.I recently mortgaged all of my business and personal assets so that I could afford to convert completely to bean to bar. If my business fails the result is personal bankruptcy. Most of the makers here have their lives invested in the business. Im sure that by Wired Magazine standards, you consider yourself small, but lets be real here.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/16/09 09:57:26
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Robert --Actually, I don't think that they are straw man arguments.I've been giving this topic a whole lot of thought in the last couple of weeks as I've talked with other chocolate makers and chocolatiers and what we're beginning to finally discuss are some important differences in our attitudes about chocolate and other gourmet foods and beverages.I think that a lot of the confusion stems from how new chocolate as a "serious" gourmet food is. We're still working on developing the vocabulary - and the target is moving while we're doing it. The world is a lot more complex than our current language to describe it. We can either ignore the changes and force the world to fit the existing pigeonholes or we can work on finding better ways to talk about what the changed reality is. 10 years ago bean-to-bar was adequate. Today it no longer is.I certainly feel the need to revisit some of the "accepted" definitions and rewrite them because they are clearly not working any more.:: Clay
Mindy Fong
@Mindy Fong
04/16/09 09:46:06
19 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Sorry. No amount of explanation is going to transform an ugly word to something else.
Alan McClure
@Alan McClure
04/15/09 13:41:54
73 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Dear Louis,Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this in detail. I appreciate it. It certainly clarifies the situation.Very best,Alan
Louis Rossetto
@Louis Rossetto
04/15/09 13:05:57
3 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

It was certainly never our intention at TCHO to cause anyone offense, especially since, with the imminent introduction of our TCHOPro line of technical chocolates, people who buy couverture are also our customers. Our point was simply to differentiate ourselves by pointing out that we are so utterly obsessed by chocolate that we made the fundamental (and perhaps fundamentally insane) decision to integrate backwards to source, and then control every step of the process to making finished chocolate -- bean to bar.Obviously, that there are but a handful of companies in America that do what we do doesn't make us better or worse than most of the other good people who work with chocolate, just different. Apple makes computers; Intel makes their chips. Both companies understand the value they contribute to computing. If Intel was describing themselves, they would rightly say they don't use chips, they make chips. And if Apple was describing itself, it would rightly say it doesn't make chips, it uses them to make great computers. Is one "better" than the other?On "arrogance" -- again, please don't confuse our pride in what we've accomplished with any sense of "superiority." We are a small, young company, and we have spent the past three years engaged in the very difficult endeavor of building a business with a supply chain that spans the developing world, a pier full mammoth machinery, and the daunting task of creating from scratch original formulations for extremely demanding consumers. We are a little start up competing in a very brutal arena with some of the biggest, most established transnationals in the world, and we realize every day that our success is anything but assured -- the last thing we feel is arrogant. On the contrary, I feel incredibly humble and insecure in the face of our manifold challenges.To Hallot: we roast on location while we finish our own roasting facility here in SF. That means we buy the beans directly from producers, take possession of them, develop roasting profiles in our lab for that particular batch of beans, contract for transport to a roasting facility -- three of the four we use were designed and built by our co-founder Karl Bittong -- and then either Karl or Timothy or both are physically on location. for however long it takes, to direct the roast using the roasting profiles we created. We don't think of this as "buying" liquor, as if we were selecting some finished product off the shelf from a producer. Actually, we think of this as manufacturing liquor under very trying circumstances -- out there in the world, rather than in our nice, safe factory. Believe me, we wish our facility was finished here in San Francisco, if for no other reason than it would vastly simplify the logistical, travel, and manufacturing obstacles.But this raises an interesting, larger question. Where should we draw the line over what constitutes bean-to-bar? Say thirty percent of dark chocolate is sugar, and sugar directly contributes not just to the sweetness but the flavor of the bar. Does anyone believe that a bean-to-bar manufacturer isn't because they buy refined sugar, instead of refining it themselves? Is Scharffen Berger not a bean-to-bar manufacturer because they contract out the manufacture of their milk chocolates? What if you contract molding and wrapping? Virtually nobody ferments, so is anyone really a "bean-to-bar" manufacture? What about growing -- if you were making wine, growing your own grapes would be another measure of the care and control you take in making your product. By that measure, there would be very few "bean-to-bar" manufacturers, indeed.
SU
@SU
04/11/09 13:02:22
18 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Also, it doesn't hurt to consider how consumers will take your caricaturing of the competition. I have a choc fridge brimming with Patrick Roger, Amedei, Regis, my husband's Domori and endless amounts "experimental" (read never tried) bars. And I like it all: bars, bon bons, confections, whatever as long as its dark. As an educated (read obsessive) high volume consumer, if I heard or read that re-melter nonsense, not only would I not purchase, I might dissuade friends from doing so as not to reinforce such marketing behavior. As consumers, the pocketbook is one of the only weapons you have.In non-profit work we have a saying: saving the world doesn't entitle you to be an jerk to everyone around you. Although my friends and I just call it the f**king tacky factor, because when you see it you say, "Well, that's just f**king tacky."
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
04/07/09 12:23:04
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I have to agree completely with this. "Re-melter" certainly doesnt suggest the skill or craft on the part of the chocolatier. Using that sort of terminology when describing your competition is derogatory. While it is important to point out what you do differently to make your product unique, I usually find that doing that by speaking negatively of your competition really makes you look bad.Lastly, Im not convinced that anything coming out of a universal should be considered artisan or craft. If a company hires out the roasting (did I misunderstand this part?), and the nib grinding, then throws that into a universal??? If thats your model fine, but you shouldnt then run down the competition by calling them "re-melters".
Mindy Fong
@Mindy Fong
04/07/09 12:06:20
19 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

My point is not to single out a certian person within the Tcho company. My point is that Tcho chooses to use the word 're-melter' than any other term. This can be found on your website, on your printed material and spoken directly to customers by Tcho representatives. Yes, Tcho is doing innovative things by marketing by flavor descriptors over cocoa percentages. Great. But mainstreaming 're-melter' may be a bit harder to accomplish. No doubt, as you have read in other people's comments on this thread, not all, but others do agree that the term 're-melter' connotates a certain arrogance by the peron using the term. I'm put my money that no chocolatier doing business in the US prefers to use the term 're-melter'. It's great to take pride in any accomplishments that you do, but my feeling is that there's a layer of arrogance to go along with it.Just my personal feelings. I recognize that it's Tcho's marketing strategy to separate themselves as a chocolate maker over the vast majority of chocolatiers.
Alan McClure
@Alan McClure
04/04/09 18:39:07
73 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Send me a message. Patric Chocolate is available in Canada.
Amber S.
@Amber S.
04/03/09 20:14:10
5 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Ooh everyone.Just when I think Im going bonkers in my own little endeavours, I log on to the Chocolate Life and realize -truly- Im not alone.After all this, my question is one of semantics. Can you really say re-melter or is that like saying 'unexpected surprise'. Was the initial product (cocoa liquor -wherever it appeared in the process) ever actually in a melted state, before becoming a solid which goes on to be melted by chocolatiers/fondeurs? Or was it pulverized, liquefied, warmed by mechanical friction...I think re-melter is just an ugly word, if its even a real word. It makes me think of sitting over the chocolate in dirty coveralls with a dangling smoke.But that aside, Im with holycacao.Some people do everything and obsess over every step, and some people make a lot of money on great marketing. Its ok either way, and in the end there's buyers at both ends. (Dove commercial just came on tv) Most of us try to eek out a living somewhere in the middle.Im just excited to be doing it in a time where we can be connected in this forum and see what others are doing via the internet. Its all just amazing. When are all you American chocolate makers going to get some distribution in Canada?
Louis Rossetto
@Louis Rossetto
04/03/09 16:27:29
3 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

To follow up on Clay's and others' comments about TCHO -Except for our Ghanian "Chocolatey," we source our beans directly from farmers. Indeed, in Peru, we work directly with coops to improve fermentation and drying. We take ownership of those beans, which we use to make our "Fruity" and "Nutty" chocolates, as well as the Madagascar beans we use to make our "Citrus" chocolate, and then arrange their transport to roasting facilities.At those facilities, one or the other or both of our co-founders Karl Bittong and Timothy Childs fly in and personally direct the roasts, implementing process and protocols that we developed in our lab specifically for those beans. Indeed, three of the four roasting facilities we use were actually designed and installed by Karl over his long career. Back in SF, we turn the liquor we created into our chocolate.Ghana is a special case because the sale of beans is a government monopoly; in that case, co-founder Karl Bittong oversees the selection of our beans in person at government warehouses, then directs the roasting of those beans in a Ghanaian facility he built.So, while it is true that our roasting facility is not yet online here in SF, we are certainly roasting our own beans, overseeing the production of our own liquor, and making our own chocolate, just like other bean-to-bar manufacturers.As to the reported comment by a TCHO representative which kicked off this discussion -- over the past three amazing years, we have built a company that joins just a handful of others who are so obsessed with controlling the quality of their chocolate that they actually manufacture it from scratch. This has been incredibly hard -- requiring that we find and develop source at origin, deal with the logistics of supply chains that literally stretch around the world from Madagascar to Amsterdam to Peru to Ecuador to SF, develop roasting profiles and protocols in lab, oversee roasts on equipment that's four stories tall, then refine and conch the liquor we make to flavor profiles we developed over months in the lab and in collaboration with our Beta tasters, before finally molding and wrapping it in packaging we've designed and printed ourselves.I don't know what our representative said at that event, I wasn't there, but her comments about being a manufacturer, as opposed to a maker, may have been taken for arrogance when, in fact, they might have just been pride.
holycacao
@holycacao
04/02/09 14:57:44
38 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

My 2 cents-There is a lot that the people chocovore listed as producers do to the chocolate. Some are connected with the source, others buy brokered cacao. Either way the manufacturer has a product, that if tasted raw and unroasted would have a very small market, (raw food people I guess). A lot happens to those well fermented or poorly fermented cocoa beans and that is the art of chocolate. Each of the makers listed have a style that regardless of cacao is recognizable (textures, flavors, roasts etc)The fact that they have a style and can be a part of the whole process demonstates skill of the trade.In another thread I quoted Art Pollard of Amano, "The problem with chocolate, is that every step is the most important step".So it's hard to do everything-and that's ok. But the people who do everything, and do it right, deserve the recognition for it. (isn't there a database for this somewhere?! Shouldn't that be authoritative?!)And the people who don't do everything, that's also ok.(They'll be the "star belly sneetches" in the database)
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
04/02/09 04:54:59
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I like this..."tree to bar" producer. Much more accurate. Thanks for the info.
Chocovore
@Chocovore
04/01/09 21:51:39
6 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Jeff: I am lucky to enjoy world class bean-to-bar chocolate every day much of which (not most of which as you correctly note) is produced by chocolate makers (not chocolatiers/confectioners) who do monitor if not control post-harvest processing. Valhrona, Amadai, MC, Devries, and others are directly engaged with the farmers for some of their products. Volker Lehmann's success with Felchelin's Cru Sauvage is a good example. Closer to the source are Grenada, Kallari and other small-scale vertically integrated tree-to-bar producers. Every chocolate bar has a soul - some greater, some lesser. The greater souls emerge in all their splendor from the caring efforts of the humans entrusted with post-harvest handling, especially culling and fermentation. What happens later may or may not yield excellence. But without a fruitful beginning, the potential for truely soulful distinctiveness is diminished.
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
04/01/09 14:38:25
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

They are indeed precut and glued.
holycacao
@holycacao
04/01/09 13:21:03
38 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Are your boxes precut and glued? Because I am embarressed to show a picture of my packaging room. I delayed cleaning up all of the "cuttings" because I was really curious to see how much paper was getting wasted and how many packages I needed to cut in order to be able to swim in it- so far I'm 300 in and it's only a kiddie pool!
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
04/01/09 11:37:14
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

We are packing bars by hand at this very moment! We also make and pack everything here by hand, box it up, and send it out to the US. I understand your point, and we are going to do our best to provide transparency in our upcoming launch and following marketing campaign.

John DePaula
@John DePaula
04/01/09 11:15:35
45 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

To my mind, if at some point in your business, you have not sat at a table folding bars for hours on end, you just havent earned it!.Here, here!
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
04/01/09 07:15:03
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Jeff, I dont think that anyone would deny that you are doing something unique down there, and should definitely educate your customers to that effect. FYI, I think Steve Devries does some of that. I know he is even splicing his own clones in Costa Rica.I read Alan's comments as a frustration which I share, and has to do with a chocolate company putting out a product with a lot of high dollar marketing and packaging, and which uses a lot of ambiguous language to trick the customers into thinking that they are something that they are not. Some of these companies are not even molding their bars, but simply devise flavor combos, packaging and then have a factory make and package the bars.To my mind, if at some point in your business, you have not sat at a table folding bars for hours on end, you just havent earned it!
updated by @Hallot Parson: 09/07/15 10:21:49
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
04/01/09 05:42:01
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

To clarify one of your points, from what I know, most bean-to-bar makers do not participate in the post-harvest handling of the beans which includes fermentation and drying, unless they own a cocoa plantation or have a very close relationship with the grower, and are on the ground at the time of harvest and post-harvest, which can be a period of several weeks 2x a year.
Ilana
@Ilana
03/31/09 22:51:58
97 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

They can be called re-melters, yes, but this term only includes that portion of their profession. Other parts are involved in attaining a final product. Confection Recipe inventers would be an appropriate term as well, as would Decorators of confections, Blender of various chocolates...The problem with "re-melter" is that it causes an assumption that the chocolatier just melts the chocolate (can even exclude tempering), pours it in a plain bar mold and sells this product. It does not include all the many facets and thought involved. The part of their job that most chocolatiers love is the creativity and invention and this is why the term "re-melter" is annoying.
Chocovore
@Chocovore
03/31/09 22:25:38
6 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I'm a consumer of chocolate bars and prefer chocolate over chocolate confections but enjoy and consume both. Back to Mindy's original issue: the term re-melter is a blunt way for bean-to-bar producers to position themselves in a very competitive market. Various high quality brands of chocolate bars in North America may use the same Euro-sourced organic couvateur to produce their products. They may differentiate via % chocolate, packaging, distribution chanels and other marketing activities but essentially there is little difference in their products. They can legitamately be called re-melters. Bean-to-bar producers differentiate based on the type, quality and origin of the fruit, the processing/fermentation/handling at the source, the style and skill of the chocolate-maker at the production facility - plus effective branding, packaging, distribution etc. It is through their efforts that chocolate consumers can experience, enjoy and learn about the delightful variations in aroma, taste and texture of this most remarkable fruit.
Christine Doerr
@Christine Doerr
03/31/09 16:23:26
24 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi MindyLove this discussion! Thanks for posting the question. I consider myself a chocolatier, of course not a chocolate maker. In my mind me these are 2 different businesses. I had a conversation this morning with someone at Guittard, my chocolate supplier. He seems to think we are competitors. I think the contrary. We should work together to promote each other. Now if Guittard were to start making truffles, things would be different ;)
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
03/30/09 09:59:15
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi Alan:Thanks for your input. I do agree some clarification is needed and I will be working on it over the coming months as we begin to roll out the product and hone the story. Your comments are very useful and definitely add to telling the story in a more transparent way.Jeff
Alan McClure
@Alan McClure
03/30/09 09:54:43
73 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi Jeff,I appreciate your response and the additional information.I'd still say the following: If the average person is likely to think that you are doing something that you are not doing, even if you don't specifically say so, then clarification is needed in your statements. Frank Schmidt's comments above are a good example of this. Due to your language, he assumed that you were a "bean-to-bonbon" chocolate maker, and I can see why he would think that, even though you didn't specifically state as much. The problem is the word "involved," which is so general as to mean just about anything. I think that in order for that statement not to be potentially misleading, then it has got to be clarified with more context.The same problem exists with the word "participates" in your original wording.Given what you have told us above, one example might be:"We have a direct and open relationship with the manufacturer of the chocolate we use and the farmer whose cacao is made into that chocolate. We feel that this relationship ultimately plays a very important role in the quality of our resulting chocolate confections."There are undoubtedly a million other ways to word things, but I think that the above example gets across the truth of the matter, as well as what you feel is important, and what you were trying to share in your original wording.Here are some additional examples of what I see as lack of clarity in your wording. From your site:"Aequare (Ay-kwar-ay) Fine Chocolates are made from the finest Arriba cacao found only in the lowlands of Ecuador. Redefining conventional production methods, whereby beans are exported to the US or Europe, transformed into chocolate, and then sold in bulk to chocolatiers, Aequare participates in almost the entire process from bean to final product in the country of origin.:Are your chocolates really made from cacao? Aren't they actually made from chocolate that is made from cacao?Also, you hold what you are doing in relief to what "others" do, which includes buying bulk chocolate. This makes it sound like you don't buy bulk chocolate, but instead, make it. This isn't helped by the general term "participates.""Aequares single origin Arriba chocolate is sourced from Ecuadors Los Rios province. Rooted with a deep sense of cultural history, cacao has been grown in this region for over two centuries. It is considered by connoisseurs to be among the finest and rarest in the world. The cacao is made into chocolate locally, then delicately hand-crafted in small batches into the fines"I understand that you may be trying to clarify here, but why not just be consistently clear across every paragraph?Also, this might just be my problem, but when people say "our chocolate" when they don't make it, I kind of cringe. I know that they mean: "The chocolate that we use," but not everyone realizes that. Why not simply say that you looked around for some of the best chocolate in the world, and found it in the Ecuadorian chocolate that you now use in your products?I hope that you see my comments as constructive criticism, and not as an attack. I simply want the world of chocolate to be more transparent and honest. Right now, as Devil In An Apron, states, and I think that s/he is right on, the industry is far from being anything close to transparent and honest.Alan
Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
03/29/09 06:47:58
78 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Alan:I want to clarify what I meant by "Aequare participates in almost the entire process from bean to final product ..."Aequare does not buy beans and we do not process them ourselves. That said we do have a unique position, in that I personally know who's growing my beans (or where they are specifically coming from - this depends on the product I am using), under what conditions, and how and when they are harvested and fermented. I don't think there are many, if any, chocolatiers out there who are on the ground producing a product in the country of origin who are as closely involved or personally connected with the product from start to finish as we are.I have visited the farms and areas the beans come from, and frequently meet and talk with the growers. I personally know the processor of the beans, have visited the plant where they are processed (and can stop in any time I wish), and know the people involved in the processing. We neither supervise nor give instruction on the processing of the beans. I let all the individuals involved do what they do best - the grower grows, harvests, ferments, and dries; the processor roasts and processes the beans based on input from the grower, who's judgment I clearly trust, as he has more than 30 years experience in the cocoa/chocolate industry (which I do not), mostly here in Ecuador .I then acquire the finished couverture directly from the grower, as it's a product he follows through processing-he's not selling his beans to be processed, he's paying them to make couverture for him to his specifications, with the help of their equipment and expertise.It's at this point where my hand in completing the final product takes over; Aequare makes bars and confections from the chocolate - and given my accounting of our relationships with growers and processors, I think it's fair to say that Aequare is involved with the entire process. I think I would be selling myself short, as you so succinctly puts it, if I didn't somehow say I participated in the entire process, since I am clearly on the ground and able to witness, judge, taste, and give my input where and when I feel competent to do so.If you can suggest a better way to describe what it is Aequare Chocolates does, I would be happy to consider it in order to provide our customers with a more accurate representation of our activities.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/26/09 07:52:01
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

And this just in from Timothy's Facebook page (March 26, 2009):"Timothy Childs is waiting as Ecuadorian customs is xraying and searching 12 boxes of cocoa liquor."So not only are they roasting in Ecuador they are grinding (which makes total sense). But - to be fair, the site says, "TCHO is direct, transparent connection between the farmers and the consumers, from the pod to the palate, from high concept to sensual experience." They don't claim (at least here) to do 100% of the manufacturing in the SF plant. Notwithstanding, I don't think they are bean-to-bar in the accepted definition of owning all the manufacturing plant.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/25/09 22:24:42
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

From Timothy Childs' Facebook post March 25, 2009""Timothy Childs is extremely pleased to be celebrating a very sucessfull [sic] 4-day roasting run of 27 tons of cacao beans here in Guayaquil, Ecuador by having a big nice cold..."I think it's safe to say that at least 27+ tonnes of their chocolate is not "from pod to palate" in their SF factory.
John DePaula
@John DePaula
03/20/09 11:25:51
45 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

"TCHO makes obsessively good dark chocolate from pod to palate in our San Francisco factory."This implies that they also ferment and dry the cacao in their facility in SF. I think that we can quite safely assume that this is not true.I would like to see more clarity in Tcho's marketing and public statements..Thanks, Alan, for that clarification. I agree with you: more clarity in their marketing campaign would be better.
Alan McClure
@Alan McClure
03/20/09 04:34:34
73 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

John,Recently one of the Tcho founders, Louis Rosetto, their CEO, stated the following: http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/1978963:Topic:7700?page=3&commentId=1978963%3AComment%3A20426&x=1#1978963Comment20426 "We at TCHO buy our beans directly from farmers or coops, we personally oversee their roasting to our own proprietary roast protocols and profiles, and then we manufacture beans from the liquor made from the roasts."The roasting and grinding is done overseas as far as I know. So, it seems that they contract to have their cacao roasted and ground in the country of origin according to their specs. They then import the blocks of chocolate liquor, and the chocolate is finished here in the US. I have no doubt that their intention is to do the final steps in their SF facility, but I'm not sure if that is currently the case or not. I would be more than happy for a Tcho representative to clarify all of this. You'll note that I specifically tried to start a dialog in the other thread and Louis never responded.By the way, as of this moment, Tcho's Twitter description says this:"TCHO makes obsessively good dark chocolate from pod to palate in our San Francisco factory."This implies that they also ferment and dry the cacao in their facility in SF. I think that we can quite safely assume that this is not true.I would like to see more clarity in Tcho's marketing and public statements.Alan
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
03/19/09 21:21:58
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Indeed! Yeah, its Chuao. I dont know those guys, and they may be the nicest people in the world, but I know what they pay for ingredients, and in my opinion they do over charge. I guess the market proves me wrong though, because they are certainly more successful than I.Also, and I admit this is sour grapes on my part, but you are not allowed to claim a trademark on a name that refers to a geographical area. If you look up their trademark status, they claim that the word Chuao means "chocolatier". It must be in a language that they invented because everyone knows that Chuao is a region in Venezuela known almost exclusively for cacao. They even admit this in their literature. This is another example of how being able to hire a professional to handle these issues allows you great advantages over those of us who bootstrap.Hallot
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/19/09 16:19:37
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hallot:It's okay to name names here. It's in the best interests of transparency all the way around. Does the company name by any chance begin with with the same letter as the state they're HQd in which just happens to be the first letter of the word chocolate?:: Clay
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
03/19/09 11:38:17
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Alan, your points really illustrate how difficult it is for small producers to go head to head with a well financed larger company.As I was thinking about this, it occurred to me that this is really what defines an "artisan" chocolate business from just a chocolate business. When I make a bar, regardless of whether it is with my chocolate or with couverture, I am putting my energy into making something that is to the best standard that I am capable of. I think we all make chocolate because it feels good somewhere inside. Other companies are in the business of chocolate and spend their energy marketing products in a way that takes advantage of the niche market that has been created by you and others. They are effective because they have the budget and the advertising.A certain well financed chocolate company with a misleading Venezuelan name uses the same couverture that I have been making confectionary bars with for 4 years. The bars are the same size yet they charge nearly $2.00 a bar more than we do. Based on the packaging, I'm not sure that the average person who isnt in the industry would be able to discern that they are not making that chocolate, and the value for the product is horrible.OK, sorry for the rant! I wont even get started on NOKA.HallotEscazu Chocolates
Alan McClure
@Alan McClure
03/18/09 17:57:22
73 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi Hallot,Thank you for your comment.I agree. I definitely should have said: "Bean-to-bar means starting with cocoa beans and ending with finished chocolate bars in a facility or facilities owned by one single company."I agree that "one facility" isn't the important issue, and that one company that owns multiple facilities, such as yourself, definitely still "makes chocolate from bean to bar or from bean to bonbon as the case may be. I agree with Clay's definition below. However, I would add a little more clarification and say that "bean-to-bar" should definitely mean that one molds tempered chocolate in some way. In other words, if a company makes chocolate and then ships it off to be molded into bars by another company, under contract, then doesn't count as bean-to-bar.I can think of a likely situation where all of this gets even more complicated. For example, take the case of a company that molds tempered blocks of chocolate that it has made to be sold to other companies, but also ships off some of that chocolate to be molded under contract into retail bars under its own brand name. In this case, I would say that though the company in question is basically a bean-to-bar company, for them to simply make such a claim without clarification would likely confuse their customers into thinking that they mold their own retail bars. Since this would be untrue, I am arguing that it would be ethically inappropriate for them to make such a claim without some sort of disclaimer--perhaps on their bar packaging, such as:"Molded into bars for X Company by Y company."I don't think that the end consumer should be put in the position, by language used by the company, or conveniently not used, of reasonably believing that something is true when it actually is not.Best,AlanP.S. I don't blame companies for the mistaken claims of others as long as the company has done their best to correct them. It is inevitable that things will be said or written about a company that are not completely true. That said, especially when dealing with the press, which is apt to reach a large number of people, I think that it is particularly important that we should really make an effort to clarify for them what it is that we do and don't do. It is too bad that we can't count on most of the press to do their homework and simply get it right, but they have proven over and over again, that as a group, they simply make factual errors all too often. So, I think it must become our job, as industry insiders, to police them since they don't police themselves effectively. It's too bad too; I've got other things to do.P.P.S If you are a journalist and never make factual errors then you have my utmost respect.
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/18/09 16:17:20
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hallot:For what it's worth, my definition of bean to bar has never included the concept that it must all be done in one facility - just that you have to "own" all the processes involved. In other words, the company that's claiming to do the bean to bar thing must clean, roast, crack/winnow, grind, refine, and conch the chocolate to a finished, edible state.All of the above steps must be done by the company laying claim to bean-to-bar or it's not. I don't think it has to be done all in one building. It doesn't count if you send the beans out to be roasted under contract to your specs. Bean-to-bar means 100% traceable to the company making the claim.I really don't care if the chocolate then gets tempered into retail bars or some other form (bar, disk, pellet) that gets sold and melted to be used in something else, though some people assume that bean-to-bar means bean-to-retail bar.So in the case of your making the chocolate and sending it to the shop to be made into bonbons - it's still bean to bar as long as you're doing all of the work in-house (even if it's more than one house).I hope this helps your thinking on this.:: Clay
Hallot Parson
@Hallot Parson
03/18/09 16:02:41
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Hi Alan.I just stumbled on this discussion, and would like to contribute a perspective. When you state: "Bean-to-bar, as you know, means starting with cocoa beans and ending with finished chocolate bars in one facility.", do you really feel that it must be made in one facility?For example, my shop is quite small. I am in the process of setting up a production space in a less expensive non retail area where we will make all of the chocolate we use entirely from the bean. Although I will be making bars at this location, I will be sending chocolate over to the retail shop for them to make the confections that they sell. So by your definition, is it not "bean to bon-bon"?As you know, to make any real volume the equipment can get pretty big. Although I wish that I could afford a large space in a high rent retail district so that people could actually see the process, at this point its not in the cards.I completely agree with you regarding all of the confusing and even misleading info that people put out about their operation. Sometimes, however, other people and publications unintentionally create the confusion. I have always been concerned about the fact that we have been doing both bean to bar for 1 line, and using couverture for what I consider a confectionary line. I ALWAYS correct people if they assume that Escazu has always been bean to bar, but it isnt always enough.It's for this reason that we have decided to change the name of the business when we fully transition to making all of our chocolate. The new company will be called Ezca Chocolates, and Escazu will be a brand of that company. I sincerely hope that this will clear up any confusion that people have with us.Take care,Hallot
Luis Dinos Moro
@Luis Dinos Moro
03/13/09 19:30:13
15 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Apples and oranges. They are both different and both difficult to achieve.Luis
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/07/09 10:31:41
1,696 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Melanie: I agree with you on most points.However, it is important to note how others represent themselves because in some cases they have the money and/or visibility to alter a market view and make it more difficult for everyone else to compete.I've said elsewhere that one of Guittard's biggest goofs was not to immediately start making a product to compete with Scharffen Berger once they stopped making chocolate for them. That gave Scharffen Berger the opportunity and time to define what "good" chocolate was. "Good" chocolate had lots of big, bright, red fruit flavors in it. If another chocolate didn't taste like Scharffen Berger it wasn't good chocolate.For a representative of TCHO to make remarks like this - unchecked - has the potential to do a disservice because they are very good at using the Internet to build awareness and a loyal customer base and therefore have the ability to change the way people think about chocolate. We know that they want to do this because they are staying away from percentages and origins and adopting a new kind of naming system for their chocolate. This is smart if they can get people to adopt their language because it puts everyone else at a disadvantage.While I do believe that TCHO intends to become a fully integrated bean-to-bar manufacturer, at the moment I do not believe [Note to Timothy, Louis, et al, please let us know if I am wrong here.] that they are roasting their own beans in their own equipment in their own factory. IIRC, beans are roasted by others "according to proprietary protocols" and then ground into liquor. The liquor is transported to the factory in SF where it is converted into finished chocolate and molded.For a rep of TCHO to refer to a chocolatier as "merely" a "re-melter" is a little disingenuous IF in fact TCHO "merely" makes chocolate from liquor while implying that they are making it from beans.I believe, and I think virtually everyone else in the community agrees with me, that a "true" bean to bar manufacturer owns all of the equipment and personally performs all of the processes to convert raw beans to finished chocolate. They do not outsource any part of it. (As far as I am concerned, wrapping is immaterial to the process of making chocolate, so I don't include that in the requirement to be a "true" bean to bar manufacturer.)
Melanie Boudar
@Melanie Boudar
03/07/09 00:31:24
104 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

I always explain that I am a confection maker and use chocolates from around the world that enhance a particular flavor I am working with.I do carry bars from various artisan chocolate makers both local and elsewhere that make their bars from the bean...and some actually grow it (local) as well.her statement was lazy and ignorant and who really cares what she says. It is one person that really doesn't affect the rest of us.I think I will embrace my "inner fonduer"
updated by @Melanie Boudar: 09/13/15 14:50:31
Mindy Fong
@Mindy Fong
03/06/09 23:03:16
19 posts

Chocolatiers = Re-melters?


Posted in: Opinion

Wow, thanks for the link to 'What's Noka Worth?'. I do highly recommend that all 10 articles be read and I see how this can cause upset to actual chocolate makers like Alan McClure.
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